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Shut The Hell Up And Sell With Ronnell Richards and Roy Kowarski (transcipt)

Ronnell (00:10):

Welcome back to the Shut the Hell Up and Sell podcast. I'm your host, the author of Shut the Hell Up and Sell Ronnell Richards. I am so happy that you guys have chosen to join us this week and, um, sit with me and listen or watch whatever, however you're consuming this as I sit down with another rockstar leader in business and sales and we talk shop. I hope that you guys are really enjoying this. Um, please leave your comments on Spotify, on YouTube, LinkedIn, wherever you're viewing this. Let us know if this is making an impact with you. Let me know what's going on in your world because beyond just talking to you guys, we want to talk with you. We wanna have a dialogue. So if you've got questions, you've got things that you're challenged with, especially getting in here into 23. Um, some of you guys are gonna be dealing with some unique challenges, and we wanna be part of helping you, you know, with the solutions to get through those challenges.

Alright, with that said, I wanna go ahead and bring on this week's guest. I am bringing on a gentleman who is a very good friend of mine, and I, and, um, God, this guy we've connected with, I've connected with him on so many levels beyond business. But the funny thing is, is when you put yourself out there and you're a little bit vulnerable, you'll find that you'll get relationships like that. Um, this gentleman that's joining us today is one of those relationships all the way on the other side of the globe for me, but someone that I respect tremendously. I've got Roy Korski on today. Roy, what's going on my friend? How are you?

Roy (01:43):

Hey, man. Let Ron, you know, um, I'll asked you, I asked you the question, you know, how long ago have we been in connect in connection? Yeah. Uh, and you, you had two words to add and it, and it's, it's is so, so real when you have, you know, genuine, authentic relationships and that was, you said, too long. Yeah. And that's what happens. Yeah. We get so caught up, you know, in our, in our, in our day-to-day worlds that, you know, months go by. But here's the thing is, you and I have a connection and you and I have an association, a relationship. It doesn't make any difference if we speak every day or once a year or once every second year. That doesn't falter in any way.

Ronnell (02:24):

Isn't that the truth though, when you have a connection with someone, like, um, and that's why I'm, I'm a huge proponent, even, you know, if you, if you guys have not read the book, please read the book, get the book, shut the hell up and sell. But that's one of the things I talk about in the book is alignment it, doing business with people that you've got great alignment with, right? And, and what I mean by that is just connecting with and building relationships with people that you vibe with. Great things happen from that. And to your point, Roy, like, you know, unfortunately we haven't spoken in a little bit, but when we do, we pick up right back off where we, where we left off. Right? <laugh>, it's, it's like we were just talking. Um, anyway, this is your show and so I really, you've got such great wisdom and so I really want to get into, um, first if you could share, um, with our audience exactly what it is that you do.

Roy (03:16):

Thanks, Renan. So, um, I'm a branding and marketing specialist. Um, I run a company called out there branding here in Sydney, Australia. Um, even though I do a lot of work around the world, um, and through my experience of working with Fortune 500 companies like, uh, Google, MasterCard, YouTube, LinkedIn, Canva, TikTok, Shopify, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, uh, use the experience of working with these Fortune 500 companies to assist medium sized companies with their branding and marketing requirements. And the, the ideal kind of companies that I work, or that I like to work with that I get the best results from are companies that are scaling up. So in other words, they're at a particular level and they want to get to the next level and companies that are rebranding. Um, and I suppose, um, my, my biggest success has come from companies that are open minded to grow and they, yeah, they prepared to listen.

Ronnell (04:22):

What a, that, that is one of the best answers to that question I've had. Roy, here's why. Because like a true marketer and branding professional, you quickly, you articulated who you are, what you do, and who you serve. That's something that we usually miss. Like, who do we serve? Who do we really, uh, uh, uh, who do we get tremendous results for? And man, you hit that straight out the park. That's <laugh>. And that's something else that's in the book, guys. I'm sorry, but this is the shut the hell up and sell podcast. Like you did the perfect elevator pitch, guys, rewind that. Rewind that. You just got some serious wisdom. That is how you deliver an elevator pitch. Thank you, my friend. Um, my, my my first question for you, because I wanna, I wanna know where it began for you. So tell me, what, what was your first sales job? What's the first sales gig that you did? You had?

Roy (05:14):

Well, um, many, many years ago. I'm not gonna divulge how many years ago. Cause that's not gonna be, you know, super beneficial for anybody. Um, many years ago, um, I I I started selling a particular product, um, um, and it was, and it was candles in, in South Africa. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> years gone by, you know, a lighting was a major issue and, and a lot of underprivileged people didn't have access, accessibility to electricity. So candles was a big

Ronnell (05:45):


Roy (05:46):


Ronnell (05:48):

What? So, okay. Candles. That is new for me. Candles. Like what kind of candles? Cause my wife, you know, she loves these descended candles. Yeah, yeah. What kinda candles?

Roy (06:00):

The, the basic long thin candles that gave lot. Nothing.

Ronnell (06:05):


Roy (06:07):

It was a big business.

Ronnell (06:08):

Wow. Wow. You know, that's something that I think we could, we take for granted. Exactly. Like, and, and yes, you guys, you, you, you were picking up the accent, right? If you're wondering, he's from Sydney. Yes. He is South African. He lives in Sydney. <laugh>. So, and so you were selling candles. Tell me about that. Like, so was it like a door to door, sort of it selling, you were doing

Roy (06:34):

The, the sales that are, this is really where it started. The sales, where it started was I would sell the candles to wholesalers and distributors that would then sell it to shopkeepers that have it in their shops.

Ronnell (06:49):


Roy (06:51):


Ronnell (06:52):

And, and

Roy (06:52):

Yes, you you absolutely spot on. You know, we, we take for granted the fact that, you know, some people just go, uh, as they walk into a room, they go to the switch and they switch it on and light arrives and other people don't have accessibility to that. And so therefore the candles was a, was a, was a very, very huge part of people's lives.

Ronnell (07:17):

Is that still, is that still a business that is that, that people are doing? No. Like, I mean, cuz I, no, no. Okay. No, it's,

Roy (07:25):

It's in south, in South Africa. I mean, I, I'm an Australian now, but I I originally come from South Africa, as you said. Um, no, it's a, it's a dead business. It's, it's very, you know, candles is, has from, from l from using them for l for lighting purposes, you correctly pointed out like your misses. You know, now all of a sudden it's beautiful scented candles for the bathroom. Yeah. For the, for the house. You know, for, for c citronella for, you know, the, the, it, it's, it's completely moved away from the, the, the basic a need of a candle years gone bar, which was to have light in the home.

Ronnell (08:07):

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Hey, um, here, my next question for you, um, first I want, I want to congratulate you cuz I know that you, you, you were nominated for a very prestigious award and you won it, which is, uh, the 2022 social audio person of the year. And I know how much you've put into, um, your, your, your presence and sharing and, uh, mentoring and, and nurturing a community via audio. So congratulations on that, my friend. Thank you. And, and, and that ties into my my next question for you, cuz I know you appreciate and understand the importance of, of, you know, paying it forward and coaching and mentorship and, and especially in sales, because we don't, that's not something we, there's no formal class you can go to to get that business acumen and coaching and everything that we need to be successful in sales. So, um, I'd like to know if, or rather if, if you would share with me someone that made an impact, someone that was an unsung hero for you, that gave you coaching, mentoring, either long term, short term, but made a similar impact. Like the impact that you're making in, you know, who knows thousands of people across the globe right now, but someone that made that impact to you with you rather earlier in your career. Who would you like to shout out?

Roy (09:29):

Well, um, there are quite a lot of people that, that, you know, have made impacts. Um, and I mean, this is probably very inappropriate, but you made a huge impact on me. Um, and, and, and I mean, it's your show, so I'm not, I'm not really gonna, I'm not gonna hijack with that particular story, but, you

Ronnell (09:48):

Know, but thank you for saying so. But <laugh>

Roy (09:50):

Well, the

Ronnell (09:51):

Reality you made it equally,

Roy (09:52):

You remember we had this conversation about, um, seeing the world through the eyes, um, of a black person mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that was such an impactful conversation for me. It was actually a life changing conversation because I thought that I was, you know, an enlightened white person. You showed me that I had never ever thought about these really important things. So you made a huge impact. But I suppose

Ronnell (10:18):

Thank you for saying so,

Roy (10:19):

But I suppose there's one person that really, you know, that really got me thinking his name is Dove Barron. Mm. And, you know, dove Barron. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, what he did for me is that he challenged me in my thought process and he pushed me into uncomfortable situations that I had to say, what am I gonna do? Yeah. And that is for me, is the essence of leadership is, is get somebody outta their comfort zone and for them to start to think about aspects of their lives, of what they can do for Betterment. So he probably would've been, you know, he was, um, you know, a huge influence. Um, and as I can say, you know, I mean, if, if, if, if I was talking to somebody else in someone else's show, you would've been this person. But I didn't Thank you. I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want this to be seen that I'm on your show and I'm shouting you out, <laugh>, and that's not me anyway. But, but I did manage to get it in, didn't I?

Ronnell (11:25):

<laugh>. You did <laugh>. Well, thank you for the compliment and, and shout out to, to Dove. And I want to ask you like, how has that impacted your, so you were challenged. Do you find yourself like doing that tho those same sorts of things with people that, that work for you with you? Um, or that you're coaching or?

Roy (11:47):

Very much so. Um, I actually had a conversation with, with somebody this week that I know pretty well. Um, and we, we were talking about, um, you know, what do you want to be known for? And, um, yeah. And she, she's a really, really smart lady. And she said to me, um, I want to be known for being authentic and genuine. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I said, that's not good enough. She said, what do you mean you're offending me? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I said, that's not what you want to be known for. That's part of the process. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what you want to be known for is what is it that you, that people must, should come to you for? And that's, that's probably the lesson that I learned from Dov, um, is that when, when you want to identify, um, you know, the things that people should come to you for, there has to be complete clarity as to why they should come to you and what you can do for them. And that to me is, is the essence of leadership and mentorship.

Ronnell (13:00):

Ooh, I love that. Here's something I've pulled from what you just said too, um, that I think salespeople that are listening to this can apply. Um, there, there's a, a lot that I, that I hear about challenging customers. I don't like that terminology cuz I don't like, as a decision maker, I don't like to be challenged. But, um, I do believe, like, I, like we talk about in the book, like one of the things I I I'll tell sellers to do is keep digging. Get more ask what else? Anything else? Anything more. And like, that's essentially what you're, what you're talking about and just not accepting just that first level superficial thought or answer or, or, you know, digging deeper, getting, you know, to getting to the heart of it man. And helping people to unpack and uncover more and sellers in discovery that, that's super beneficial.

Because in discovery, you know, people, they're gonna give you a lot of times their first level superficial answer. But if you don't dig, if you don't ask for more, if you don't try to uncover more, you know, challenge them a little bit, you're not gonna get to the meet and get to what you really need to know. You'll get the, you'll get what, what, um, as we said in the book, you'll get, um, oh, you'll, oh man, I'm forgetting the quote. I forget my own quotes. Jesus <laugh>, the bottom line is paraphrasing. You'll, you'll hear what you want to hear and not what you need to hear. Yeah. Boom. That's it. It just came to me <laugh>.

Roy (14:34):

So yes, yes. Just one, one sort of canvas to what we're talking about. I call it peeling off the layers.

Ronnell (14:44):


Roy (14:44):

<affirmative>. So what that means, well, you know exactly what it means is that until you keep asking these questions and, and taking different layers off to get down to the root cause to the, to the, to the, to the meaty piece, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you don't get there. So when somebody says to you, um, what about this? And you don't say, well, you know, well what, what, accept that, but what about this? And then mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what about that? And let's go a little bit deeper into it. If you don't keep unpacking and and uncovering these layers, you don't get anywhere. And it's no different with sales. It's absolutely no different. Um, mm-hmm. <affirmative>, literally, um, a week ago we were talking in terms of, you know, somebody said to me, you know, tell me what is the biggest success in your business that sets you apart? And there's actually one very simple thing. It's called listening and listening for what is not being said, listening to, to hear. And one thing that we should never do is listen to respond. Because when we listen to respond, we are not listening because our minds is working out what we are going to say. So therefore, how you'll be listening,

Ronnell (16:09):

That's so hard for salespeople. That's so hard for people in general, right? Like, um, the most important voice to everyone is their own <laugh>. It's so, so we're sitting there as that person, as, as we're speaking to someone, we're sitting across the table with someone, we're just trying to process what they're saying so that we can say something back. Um, and not really hearing as you put it. Um, here's, here's a tip for that, guys. Here's a tip for that. Um, notes, <laugh> notes, notes. Take every meeting, sit in there with a notebook and write. Um, it'll accomplish a couple things. One, that person across the table from you will let, it'll let them know that, hey, this person's taking me serious and they're actually comprehending what I, what, what I'm saying. Or they're taking steps to make sure they comprehend. And then it also just the way that we learn, um, writing helps us to comprehend things that much more. And the last thing, you just gotta, the hardest thing I think for sellers is just the divorce. Divorce yourself from the outcomes of things. And, um, and, and the desire or need to be the smartest person in the room. Just get really good at asking open-ended questions and asking for more. You know, just like, like you, you just said Roy, you know, getting peeling back that onion.

Roy (17:33):

Yeah. And also, if I can just say, um, you know, your, your, your title, shut the hell up and sell it says it all really, if you think about it. Yes. You know, it absolutely does. And here's another little tip. Um, is that you, you said make notes, which is absolutely vato. Here's another little tip. Repeat aspects to the person.

Ronnell (17:57):


Roy (17:58):

When they've said it, what it does is it reinforces that you understood what they said. How mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's a tip. A sales

Ronnell (18:06):

Tip. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> ab There was one. Fire one. Absolutely. Love it. All right, so, so now that you're in the tip mood <laugh>, I gotta ask you, I've got, I've got a marketing and branding specialist on here, like the, uh, just the rockstar in that world. So I gotta ask for your practical, um, executable tip direction advice. Something that someone can take away from this podcast. From you start, apply it, start, start to apply it in their business immediately and see some success. What is that tip advice that you'd like to leave?

Roy (18:40):

I have a saying that I use, uh, and I use it on a reasonably regular basis. And it's, is this is the following and it's probably the most, the probably the most single, most important, um, you know, go-to for me, um, show people that you are interested in them before telling them how interesting you are.

Ronnell (19:03):


Roy (19:05):

Show people how interested you are in them before telling them how interesting you are.

Ronnell (19:17):

Pause, if you're listening to this, you're watching this pause, I want you to marinate on that. That's one of those ones that you don't just let go in the ear and be like, okay, cool. That sounded cool. No, you need to think about that. Cuz that takes intention. So I'm gonna add to your advice, Roy, and I'm gonna say, guys, give yourself some sort of reminder to stay or to follow that advice. Whether it is, I don't know, something you put on your phone, something that you <laugh> write it on your hand. I don't know, something. But, you know, you have to make sure if the, if you, if you value that advice the way that I do it, I think it'll can be a game changer for you guys. You gotta put something in place that reminds you to do that. When you have meetings, maybe before you get on your zooms, you've got, you know, something that pops up on your screen. Maybe it's on your calendar, on every single one of your Cal <laugh>, your, your, um, your meetings at you, you have it there. Something to remind you that, you know, they gotta come first. I love that. Any anything else you wanna add?

Roy (20:35):

No, I, I think that once you, once you, um, once you embrace that and that, and that's a very, it's a very generic and it's a very, you know, it's a very big thing, but yet it's a very small thing. Once you embrace that, for me, I'm focused on, on one thing solely and what I call, it's called world class customer experience. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, world class customer experience, not top class, not great custom experience world class. And if you strive for that, what you're doing is you're going back to exactly what I said, you are making people feel important. And when somebody feels important, there's a very good chance the sale will take place.

Ronnell (21:23):

How's that doing for, for your business right now? That, that world class customer service focus, how, how's that, how's that translating for you?

Roy (21:31):

That, that, that has absolutely transformed my business.

Ronnell (21:35):

How about that?

Roy (21:36):

Striving for that striving. Um, I had a, I had a meeting with my team, um, this week for 2023 goals. And I reminded them that while we have a job, because we offer and we strive for that world class customer experience mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I'm very grateful and if I can qualify it by this, um, I had a phone call from, um, MasterCard, the agency in the us uh, and the, I got an email from this woman and she said to me, we have been referred to you through, um, the agency that you look after in Australia and can you help us? And when I had the, the zoom call with her, she said to me, you know, you come with the most incredible credentials and, and testimonials and referrals. She said, we don't, we are not looking to try and find somebody, you know, anybody that can help.

We want somebody that knows what they're doing that can deliver and is prepared to keep us in the loop. The cost of that is not important. And therein lies probably the most important aspect is they're not coming to me to try and see if they can save a dollar or two. They're coming to me and my business because they know that I deliver. And they're two aspects. The one is, is, um, is, is, um, competence, in other words that I can tick the box quite easily, but the other little c that gets fitted in is the credibility. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> now, she wouldn't have come to me with this business of mine if there was no credibility in place. So if I can drop those to two words in, it's all very well to be competent, but people deal with people that are, that have got credibility over competence. Yeah. Cause competence is expected. Credibility is earned.

Ronnell (23:35):

Love it. Roy, where can people tap into, I mean, you're doing audio like everywhere. Where's the best way I want, I want people to one, follow you on LinkedIn, but two, like where's the, where can they check you out? Tell us about, um, some of your shows. What what's the best way to, to get some more of these wisdom nuggets?

Roy (23:57):

Well, LinkedIn is, is my, is my area that I, you know, that I spend most of my time in. And I, I've got a company page out there branding, uh, on LinkedIn. And what I do on the, on the company page is I don't try and tell people what I can sell. I shared tips and tricks, marketing tips and tricks like we spoke about. Um, so from an audio point of view, I think that has absolutely transformed the world is, and this is not different to what you're doing on your podcast, is I'm on, um, clubhouse, I'm on LinkedIn, um, audio events and Twitter spaces and those three audio spaces. Um, you know what somebody said to me, they said, you know, when we hear you speaking in these rooms, we honestly feel as though you're talking to us only

Speaker 3 (24:50):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Roy (24:51):

And that's the power of audio. So I can be found on LinkedIn and I can be found on the audio platforms, clubhouse, LinkedIn and Twitter

Ronnell (25:04):

On Clubhouse. Is there a regular like, um, show or follow or how do they just follow you directly or how does that work? No,

Roy (25:12):

No. I, so I'm, I'm part of the thought leadership branding club. Um, I'm on the leadership team, um, and okay, um, I run two specific rooms. One of them okay is, um, is, um, Monday Mindset, which is on a Monday at 4:00 PM Eastern Standard Time. And we talk about how important our mindset is, um, on LinkedIn and in our businesses and personally. And then on Friday, um, Friday 4:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, uh, I do another room on social selling, how to convert customers, um, through the means of LinkedIn. Um, so those are the two sort of go-tos that I'm, that I'm, um, you know, that I do regularly.

Ronnell (25:59):

Okay. All right guys. So make sure that you're connecting with Roy. Make sure that you're following his content. Um, in the show notes, we'll have links so you can make sure, you know, so you can make those, those connections. But, um, this is the sort of wisdom and and experience that you're gonna get, like, and honesty, authenticity, that you're gonna get through his, his audio. So make sure that you follow him. Make sure you listen. Um, I know I gotta get checked in now. 4:00 PM Got it. <laugh> 4:00 PM Monday. All right. Um, Roy, this has been a blast. Um, thank you so much for joining. Um, everyone out there, wherever you're listening to us in, in the World, know that we appreciate your listens. I don't care how many people, listen, <laugh>, we, we got 20 people or 20,000 people. It doesn't matter. As long as we can make an impact with one, that's what it's about.

And think about that in, in your own activities, whether it be your branding or your sales. Like it only takes one to be successful, right? Only one guys, all right. If you don't remember anything else, rewind and listen to it again. But then if you don't remember anything past that, remember this one thing, say less. See you guys next week. Hey guys, it's Ronnell and I just wanted to thank you for listening to this episode of the Shut the Hell Up and Sell podcast. If you liked it, please rate us five stars on whichever podcasting platform you're listening to this on. And while you're at it, punch that subscribe button. That way you get notified every time we drop a brand new episode. Hey, I'd also appreciate it if you went to our website, shut the hell up and and became a member. It's absolutely free. And you'll have the opportunity to listen to previous episodes of our podcast, check out some of our free courses, get a copy of the book, and we'll send you sales tips and motivational nuggets from time to time. Lastly, if you'd like to book me for either appearances or speaking engagements, just send an email to my team at team at shut the hell up and

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